The Doctor, Rose and Jack – threesome or three's a crowd?

[unfeathered]

OK. I am posting my bit of meta. I have not read through it all again because I'm too tired so if anyone spots any bits that don't make sense, please let me know! But I'm sick of it and sick of saying I'm going to post it, so I'm just going to go ahead and post it.

Oh, and it's very nearly 6,000 words long. I am not going to blame anybody for running away instead of reading it. I really did write it - or at least start it - because I needed to get my head round the relationships. So if anyone is interested enough to read all the way through, or even just a bit of it, that's great. If you're not, that's fine too. :-)


The Doctor, Rose and Jack – threesome or three's a crowd?

Having just watched Season 1 of Doctor Who for the first time since it first aired, I decided I needed to explore the relationships between the three main characters in the last five episodes. I'd discovered that a lot of people see Rose/Doctor and Rose/Jack or even Rose/Doctor/Jack in this season and I really didn't – so I went back for a closer look to see what evidence I could find.

Now, I don't claim that my interpretations of what's seen on screen are what was intended by the writers (in fact, I caught a little bit of an interview with Steven Moffat the other day where he said "The Doctor is hopelessly in love with Rose and trying to impress her" – in The Empty Child - and I'm sorry, but if that's what they were aiming for, they didn't get it across to me!). They are just my interpretations of what I can see. They are also, of course, influenced by the fact that I like Jack/Doctor and the idea of Rose/either of them squicks me because she's just so young. But this is what I came up with.

Before

Before the arrival of Captain Jack Harkness on the scene, the Rose/Doctor dynamic seemed pretty simple (to me, at least – I know other people get true love out of it but I can't see that anywhere). There was the Doctor, half out of his mind following the destruction of his home world and wanting distraction, and there was Rose, young and naïve and getting a glimpse of all the wonders there were out there in the rest of the universe. Rose developed a crush on the Doctor, whom she saw as a hero, a knight in shining armour, going round saving people as he had saved her – not only from dying but also from her humdrum life. The Doctor saw Rose as a daughter, a child he could take to see the wonders of the universe, someone he could entertain, to take his mind off his recent tragedy.

In Father's Day, the last episode before Jack, their relationship did seem to take a few small, tentative steps towards a romantic one. The arguing, the way Pete thought they were a couple, the fact that the whole episode had a lot of stuff about people getting or being married. Not that it looked like the two of them were about to jump into bed together or anything, but the Doctor did seem to be starting to realise how Rose felt about him and to think about the idea.

Then along comes Jack – and everything changes *g*


The Empty Child

Jack and Rose

It's very interesting that Jack and the Doctor don't meet until right near the end of The Empty Child. So for the whole of that episode, the emphasis is on Jack seducing Rose. And, boy, does he seduce her! I can totally see how a future Jack/Rose can be read into that. She is obviously smitten right from the start – and who wouldn't be? Not only has he just saved her life and literally caught her in his arms, but to her he's everything the Doctor is, and younger and much better looking. ("I trust him 'cos he's like you, except with dating and dancing.") So if she's crushing on the Doctor, what chance has she got against Captain Jack Harkness?

The thing is, what you have to remember is that on Jack's part, this is Jack the con-man deliberately seducing her. Yes, the seduction isn't completely due to the con – we've already been well-introduced to the flirty side of the character in his first scene: "Excellent bottom" and flirting with Algy – so we could expect him to be taken with a pretty girl falling into his arms and to turn on the charm. But most of that charm is turned on very deliberately to trap Rose the supposed Time Agent into falling for his con. In fact, dancing on the roof his ship with champagne and Big Ben and all that physical contact… he actually lays it on so thick that she stops paying attention to his 'deal'!

One other little thing that bears a closer look is the psychic paper exchange. Jack tells Rose he's "Captain Jack Harkness. 133 Squadron Royal Airforce - American Volunteer." Then hands her paper which tells her "you're single and you work out." Which is intriguing, because:

1. Presumably someone who's been both a Time Agent and a con-man should have better control of his own impulses than to let his thoughts wander like that when using psychic paper.

2. Yes, Rose is pretty, and cute, but honestly can you see someone who's been around as much as Captain Jack Harkness being so taken with her that he lets his mind wander like that?

Which leave us with:

3. It's deliberate. A deliberate part of the charm offensive to seduce the Time Agent he thinks Rose is.

And yes, her 'very available' response is quite possibly deliberate too. But for Rose it's just straightforward flirting with a handsome man. Who wouldn’t be 'very available' for Captain Jack?

Another thing I really like about all the Jack/Rose scenes is that through all the charm, John Barrowman does let through a little bit of vulnerability, which makes Jack in my mind a lot more sympathetic. Obviously, this shows a lot towards the end of the episode when he starts to realise that he's the cause of the all problems, but even in these earlier scenes there are moments when traces of self-doubt flicker across his face. One little thing I noticed is when they're dancing on top of his spaceship, he's talking confidently – even brashly – and yet his fingers are sort of picking at Rose's sleeve, not holding her surely as his face and voice are. I love this because it brings layers to Jack's character right from the start.

Interestingly, as soon as Jack works out that Rose isn't a Time Agent, his manner towards her becomes much more like the Doctor's: indulgent, not quite avuncular but definitely that of an older guy, coming down to meet her at her level. And all his attention is for the Doctor. He knows instinctively that it's the Doctor he needs to impress. Rose was easy to impress. The Doctor won't be.

Jack and the Doctor

Jack doesn't meet the Doctor until right near the end of this episode, and in fact their first meeting is (to me) a little disappointing. It's rushed and cramped, in a narrow hallway and there's little of the Harkness charm on display, while the Doctor is too busy making faces at Rose telling him they're supposed to be Time Agents and his name is Mr Spock to pay much attention to Jack. The real first meeting comes in the next scene in the hospital ward.

Here, the Doctor and Jack size each other up. The Doctor's main reaction to Jack at this point is irritation – here's another human who's managed to muck things up through being careless – but he doesn't dismiss him outright. Perhaps he senses, even at this early point, that there's more to Jack than meets the eye.

Meanwhile Jack is panicking because he knows in his gut that he's responsible for this mess, even if he doesn't know exactly why yet. And he's possibly panicking more than he normally would because he likes Rose and he wants to impress the Doctor and he knows he's blown it. Apart from the charm, he's actually not that good a con-man. (And when he explains his plan in the next episode – that he intended to get 50% of the money off the 'Time Agents' and then get the Chula ship blown up before they could get to it – I don't think he realised he'd already blown that plan because he'd told Rose a bomb would drop on the ship in two hours anyway!)

Oh, and there's a great vibe between the two of them right from the start. Angry Doctor and defensive Jack. This is when I suddenly started to find the Doctor hot.


The Doctor Dances

This starts with Jack still trying to convince himself that what's happened isn't his fault – it's obvious that even he doesn't believe his own "believe me - I had nothing to do with it." And we can tell he's a good man (or at least has the makings of one) because when the Doctor goes off, taking Rose with him, Jack doesn't give up and go back to his ship, but follows Rose and the Doctor.

Jack and the Doctor

Jack spends a lot of this episode trying to impress the Doctor. It's as if whatever Rose has told him about the Doctor on the way to the hospital has combined with the Doctor's air of authority and Jack instinctively wants to win his approval. Because Jack is a good guy, however hard he's trying to convince everyone, including himself, that he's not. And to me it's also clear he's also not a natural leader. As a con-man, he's out there on his own and to be honest he's not really doing a great job. But he has a military background and he's used to taking orders. Perhaps, subconsciously, he's been looking for someone to give him those orders and here he feels he's found that someone.

The Doctor, however, is still very cautious towards Jack – with good reason, because this is all his fault. He deliberately gets Jack to use his blaster, instead of using his sonic screwdriver, to open the door – presumably so he can get a look at it, learn more about the man by learning what weapon he uses. And the fact that the Doctor more or less states that it was he who destroyed the factory Jack's blaster was made in does rather indicate that he's not very happy about the fact Jack possesses such a weapon. Though possibly he's not the sort of person who'd be happy about someone carrying any kind of weapon.

That, of course, backfires a couple of scenes later, when the three of them are trying to hold off the hordes of gas-mask people. Jack very quickly takes up a defensive position in front of Rose, blaster at the ready, and the Doctor is noticeably embarrassed and extremely unwilling to admit that the only weapon he has is a sonic screwdriver. Which is very interesting, because it shows that the Doctor cares what Jack thinks of him too. While it obviously goes against his nature to carry a gun, when faced with competition in the shape of a very attractive man with a very impressive (to Rose) blaster, he feels inferior and doesn't want to admit it. It's his turn to be defensive when Jack, still panicky after their escape, demands "Who looks at a screwdriver and thinks "Oooh, this could be a little more sonic"?"

Of course, there's also the fact that a little earlier the Doctor switched Jack's blaster for a banana. I'm not sure exactly what this says, except maybe that he was trying to make a point that Jack isn't as good as he thinks he is. Or possibly it's simply that he feels that since he's in charge, he should have the gun.

Then we get Jack's revelation about his lost memories and "Your friend over their doesn't trust me. And for all I know... he's right not to." Yeah, the Doctor doesn't trust him yet. To the Doctor he's young and irresponsible – he has admitted to trying to con people who are having a bad enough time as it is! – and this information is just the icing on the cake. To Rose, this makes him even more interesting, but to the Doctor it just makes him dangerous.

The Doctor is, however, beginning to figure Jack out, to realise that there are layers there beneath the dazzling charm. The whole of his speech about the nanogenes trying to rebuild a race from the shattered remains of one little boy is aimed unerringly at Jack. The intensity of the Doctor's gaze as he speaks and Jack's gradual shift from defensiveness to realisation and alarm are incredibly hard-hitting. And it's all building up to that very casual, "So it's volcano day. Do what you've got to do." The Doctor isn't even looking at Jack as he says it. He knows he's made his point and that Jack will do what needs to be done.

Leading, of course, to the Doctor saving Jack's life as Jack saved everyone else's. I love this. I said in my review of The Doctor Dances that Jack's character arc could have been ended very satisfactorily by having him blown up by that bomb – but the writers, via the Doctor, chose to save him. And Jack, as he comes on board the TARDIS, is fully aware of being given a second chance. He completely understands the Doctor's response to his "Much bigger on the inside!" and seems to acknowledge it. He's also very careful not to step in on the Doctor and Rose's relationship (the dancing here being a metaphor for that), even though Rose invites him to.

One more tiny thing. The very last shot of the episode is the Doctor dipping Rose and, while she's laughing upside down over his arm, he looks across at Jack and grins. To me, that just seems to exemplify everything I've been trying to say. Here is the Doctor, fond of Rose and knowing how she thinks of him, smiling over her head at Jack as if sharing a little secret with him. It's as if he's saying, Rose is special and I love her to bits but not like that, but I'm going to look after her and so are you. Because you and I, we know so much more about the world and we're going to shield her from that.

There's also a very strong suggestion of sexual attraction in that look. *g*

Jack and Rose

For this entire episode, Jack continues to treat Rose in that same indulgent, almost avuncular manner which began as soon as the two of them caught up with the Doctor. He still flirts with her, but it's plain that he considers her a done deal and his focus is now almost entirely on the Doctor.

There's a nice example of this early on when Jack uses his blaster to open the door to the child's room. Rose tries to act very cool and arch ("Squareness gun." "Yeah." "I like it.") and actually doesn't do too badly, but Jack's response and smile definitely looks fond rather than impressed.

Another example is the 'distract the guard' bit. Rose tries to play it cool, but she's obviously looking forward to showing off her seduction skills in front of Jack (and the Doctor). Then Jack reveals not only that the guard (Algy) is gay, but so is he. Or at least, bisexual. I love the way the Doctor grins through this bit, because as he explains to Rose, he knows what 51st Century folks are like, and he's a lot more open-minded than she is, due to his age and alienness and everything he's seen. Rose is definitely shocked. And not exactly pleased. She'd thought she was special to Jack. Now she's not so sure. Poor Rose.

Her naivety also comes through when Jack disappears with the bomb. She doesn't really get it, not where he's gone nor that taking the bomb into his ship will kill him. And when she does get it, her coy little smile when Jack escapes into the TARDIS makes it clear, I feel, that she thinks the Doctor has saved Jack merely because she asked him to. I do feel sorry for her, because there's so very much more going on than that.

Rose and the Doctor

One of the most interesting things about the arrival of Jack is the way it changes the way the Doctor interacts with Rose. The instant they have a few moments to stop chasing about, the Doctor gets flustered and flushed and very keen to assert that Jack isn't the only one who has 'danced'. Up till now, he's been the sole object of Rose's interest, and seeing her all starry-eyed about Jack causes him to open up and bring out a few of those qualities that Rose is admiring in Jack: the flirtiness, the charm, the attention… the dancing. Rose actually says it, "I think you're experiencing Captain-envy," though I don't think she's seeing the whole picture there because I think the Doctor is definitely feeling an attraction to said Captain too.

Of course, meeting a time-traveller who's also sexy and flirtatious also affects the way Rose interacts with the Doctor. Up till now, while she's obviously crushing on him, she hasn't really flirted much. But left alone with the Doctor when Jack teleports back up to his spaceship, she does start flirting with him, going all coy and teasing, and wanting him to dance with her. She wants the Doctor to be Jack.

And I love the fact that they're both so involved in their conversation (even if the Doctor's actually thinking more about Jack and nanogenes at this point than dancing) that they don't notice they've been transported up to Jack's ship.


Boom Town

The thing that strikes the watcher first about this episode is the camaraderie between the three main characters – emphasised by poor old Mickey feeling (and being) out of the loop. And I can see, again, how that rather hyper team euphoria can easily be taken as evidence of Rose/Doctor/Jack.

But looking on a rather less superficial level, I don't get 'threesome' out of it at all. I get three people who are having a great time and a lot of fun together – but not in the bedroom. And that's not just because I personally don't feel that either the Doctor or Jack would take advantage of Rose's youthful crushing on both of them. It's also there on the screen.

Two particular bits point this out for me. The first is this segment (quotes taken from here)

JACK
Aww, sweet, look at these two. How come I never get any of that?

DOCTOR
Buy me a drink first.

JACK
You're such hard work.

DOCTOR
But worth it.
[He grins in an extremely self-satisfied way]

Here, the four characters are divided very clearly into two pairs. Mickey and Rose are reunited (for the moment) and hugging each other gleefully. Meanwhile, Jack and the Doctor look on fondly, almost like parents. And flirt with each other.

And in fact, from the tone of their conversation and the fact that neither of them look surprised to be flirted with – and from the fact that Jack aims his first comment, "How come I never get any of that?" at the Doctor – it's obviously not the first time they've flirted. Probably not the first time they've flirted in front of Rose, as she's not surprised either, though that's possibly just because she's not listening. But it indicates at the very least that Jack and the Doctor are already well and truly flirting with each other.

There is, however, a further extrapolation that can be made: that there's already a physical relationship there. It would certainly explain the ease they display with each other. And if they are already sleeping together, Jack's initial comment could mean one of two things: either he's joking, because he already is "getting some of that" (and perhaps it's a joke because Rose doesn't know), or he isn't getting cuddling and hugs from the Doctor, because that's not the sort of relationship they have. The Ninth Doctor doesn't really seem the cuddling type to me (not sure any of the Doctors are, except possibly Five?) and it feels far more likely that any physical relationship with Jack would tend far more towards rough, intense sex than sweet, cuddly lovemaking. It could even go further than that into the realms of D/s, to a greater or lesser extent. There would certainly be a bit of a battle for dominance between two men with such strong characters.

Which is also suggested by the second segment.

JACK
According to intelligence, the target is the last surviving member of the Slitheen family, a criminal sect from the planet Raxacoricofallapatorious, masquerading as a human being, zipped inside a skin suit. Okay, plan of attack, we assume a basic fifty seven/fifty six strategy, covering all available exits on the ground floor. Doctor, you go face-to-face, that'll designate Exit One, I'll cover Exit Two, Rose, you're Exit Three, Mickey Smith, you take Exit Four. Have you got that?

[While Jack is rattling all this off, the Doctor is eyeing him with mild surprise at his impertinence, Rose's face is contorted with the effort of understanding what on earth he's going on about, and Mickey just looks plain confused]

DOCTOR [sternly]
Excuse me. Who's in charge?

JACK
Sorry. Awaiting orders, sir.

DOCTOR [voice deepening with authority]
Right. Here's the plan.

[Pause. The Doctor beams at them]

DOCTOR
Like he said. Nice plan. Anything else?

Upon first watching, I assumed this exchange meant it was still early days for Jack as part of the TARDIS team, because he looked surprised to be put down like that by the Doctor. However, when I watched it again, I realised it could be taken another way. It could be that with Jack's military background, it's just automatic for him to assume command in such a situation and he honestly forgot the Doctor was the real boss. It could also not be the first time, because really Jack's not that surprised, and he accepts the Doctor's authority very quickly. His "Sorry" could just be sorry for forgetting. And the fact the Doctor goes with Jack's plan, and acknowledges that it's a good plan, again implies a very easy and familiar dynamic between them.

So what else is there in this episode?

The much-mentioned restaurant scene, with Jack entertaining everyone with a hilarious story, Rose hanging on his every word, and the Doctor looking on with an indulgent grin. Says it all, really, for me.

The Doctor and Rose hugging and laughing when she finally manages to say 'Raxacoricofallapatorious'. Again, this seems far more of a father/daughter (or mentor/student) moment to me than a lovers one.

The Doctor's, "Jack. How we doing, big fella?" An extremely familiar form of address. Can't help thinking things from that!

Jack telling the Doctor not to answer back to Margaret Blaine, and his warning look when the Doctor agrees to her having a 'last request'. Rose wouldn't do that, or even think of it. But Jack's got experience in this sort of thing, and while the Doctor doesn't quite treat him as an equal, he's not far from it. He can give the Doctor advice and the Doctor will listen.

Jack's 10,000 volt handcuffs. Kept on his person. What does that say about him as a character? (Or possibly about his relationship with the Doctor? *g*)

The Doctor asking Margaret to dinner with him, with Jack smirking and holding up the handcuffs behind him. Quite a double act. Definitely on the same wavelength.

The Doctor leaving Jack to work on the TARDIS alone. This speaks of a great deal of trust and again supports the feeling of almost-equals between them.

The way Jack looks to the Doctor for permission to give in to Margaret's request, even though she's throttling Rose. He doesn't just do it; he looks to the Doctor for an order, and the Doctor gives him a nod. Again, that almost-equals thing. And quite possibly another suggestion of a slightly D/s relationship.

The other question that comes up a lot with Boom Town is how long it's supposed to have been since The Doctor Dances. Having watched it three times now in quick succession… I still can't work it out. Jack being the one to ask the Doctor about why the TARDIS looks like a Police Box suggests it hasn't been that long, because with his knowledge of future/alien technology I would have expected him to have asked about that very early on, and Rose or Mickey would have been more likely candidates to ask about it here. And at first glance, as mentioned above, the "Who's in charge?" bit at the town hall does seem to indicate that it's fairly early days for Jack.

But once you look more closely, the easiness between all three main characters does indicate that a fair amount of time has passed. The general opinion seems to be about a month, which feels right to me. I don't think it's been much more than that because the three of them do seem to be still in that early stage of friendship where it's all really intense and fun; it tends to mellow a bit after that, I feel.

So that's my verdict. A month, give or take a week or two.


Bad Wolf

Bad Wolf is interesting because the Doctor, Jack and Rose are separated for most of the episode so there is literally no interaction between them – in fact, Rose isn't on screen with either of the others at all!

On the other hand, the first thing all three do when they remember what happened is ask about the others. Well, yes, they would. But it's still worth a mention. And the Doctor's brief flashback to them in the TARDIS, all laughing about their close escape, just as they're about to get zapped to the Game Station tells us that they're still in that euphoric new friends together stage.

And the moment Jack joins up with the Doctor, he falls instinctively into the role of the Doctor's lieutenant – just as he does many, many years later in Utopia. It's his natural role. Yes, he shows his military leadership skills in this and the next episode, but it's all acting on the Doctor's orders, following the Doctor's plan. This is shown nicely by the way they act together to get out of gaol, just on the Doctor's nod, without any plan being made out loud. Again, they're on the same wavelength.

Except on the subject of guns, another thing that crops up again in Utopia. Jack gets himself a nice big gun, which he wants to use to blast open the door to the game room where Rose is – but the Doctor stops him and uses his sonic screwdriver instead. When they escape from prison, Jack hands his big gun over to the Doctor while he takes the guards' guns. The Doctor hands the big gun over to the male programmer as soon as he can. Meanwhile, Jack is toting his two guns everywhere. The Doctor doesn't try to stop him, after that first door-blasting thing. He just doesn't join in. Perhaps he recognises that there's room for both ways of working, that they complement each other.

Another thing that crops up again in Utopia is the Doctor's discomfort with Jack flirting with anyone – in this case, Lynda and the male programmer. Which is interesting, because the Doctor himself is flirting with Lynda, a lot! So who's he being possessive about? Jack, or Lynda? I don't know, but it's interesting that Jack seems to have rubbed off on him to the extent that he's not just flirting with Rose now but with other pretty young girls!


The Parting of the Ways

Jack and the Doctor

There is again a great feeling of the Doctor and Jack working together as a team of almost-equals in this episode. Right from the start where it's apparently Jack who rigs up a force-field round the TARDIS to allow them to rescue Rose. And the way he's the only one who understands that the Doctor's going to set up a Delta wave, and what it will do.

Again, in this episode, there's a marked difference between Jack the military leader and Jack the Doctor's lieutenant. When he's with the Doctor, he's deferent, supportive and definitely in second position. At no time does he try to take over command – so they've worked things out since that little incident in Boom Town. But when he's away from the Doctor, he's military guy and he's totally in command. He knows what he's doing. And his speech to the drop-outs on Floor Zero is beautifully done. He's not just trying to gather volunteers to hold off the Daleks from the Doctor's position; he's also trying to save everyone else, even though they don't think they need his protection. His final, "Don't make a sound," is actually quite desperate.

Then of course there's the fantastic three-way conversation between Jack, the Doctor and the Dalek Emperor, and the much-quoted "Never doubted him, never will" – the grins the Doctor and Jack share at that line are yet another indication of how much they are now sharing things without saying them. Yes, Jack says it, but there's a lot more going on there. And the way he's willing to die for the greater good – again – shows just how far he's come.


Jack and Rose

There's a lovely little moment between these two when Jack and the Doctor have just materialised the TARDIS round Rose to rescue her:

JACK
Hey, don't I get a hug?

ROSE
Ahh, come here!

JACK [gesturing to the Doctor]
I was talking to him.

[They laugh and throw their arms around each other]

It's over very quickly but I feel it does reinforce that friends not lovers impression. And also here's Jack joking again about wanting hugs from the Doctor! Very interesting…

There's also another indication of their relationship after Rose has been sent home – Jack comes to the screen to ask her to read out some codes for him, and is definitely a bit pissed off when the Doctor says she's not there: "Of all the times to take a leak! When she gets back, tell her to read me the codes!" Obviously it wasn't going to be a romantic interlude at this point in the proceedings, but to me this is definitely the attitude of a superior officer to an inferior one (Rose, not the Doctor). Of course, Jack is under a lot of stress, but I think it's interesting that this is the first time we've really seen him use that attitude with her. (It's also interesting because there's a very similar moment in Utopia where Jack tells Martha to do something, when they're all rushing about making the rocket go, and she's all sarcastic "Yes, sir!" at his tone.)

The Doctor and Rose

It's interesting that Jack's not the only one to proclaim in his faith in the Doctor in this episode. In fact, Rose does it first:

DOCTOR
Told you I'd come and get you.

ROSE
Never doubted it.

DOCTOR
I did!

Of course, we already know that Rose thinks the Doctor is a knight in shining armour, so she would expect him to rescue her, but I just think it's interesting to point that she says the 'never doubted' thing too, since I haven't seen that quoted anywhere near as much as Jack's.

We also get some lovely Lynda-envy from Rose. There's the bit at the beginning where Lynda admits she stayed on the Game Station because of the Doctor and Rose gives her quite a Look! And a little further on, the Doctor comes up with the Delta wave idea and Jack's all "you're kidding!" and Rose opens her mouth to say something but is interrupted by Lynda enthusiastically yelling "Well, get started and do it then!" It's not clear if Rose is disgruntled by this because she, like Jack, has an inkling that there's a drawback to the Doctor's plan (i.e. the fact they'll all get their brains fried) or if she's simply feeling pushed aside by the Doctor's new girl, but I suspect there's a little of both. And there are daggers in the looks she gives Lynda as Lynda says goodbye to the Doctor.

On the other hand, Lynda does get sent out of the way pretty quickly (along with Jack), leaving the stage set for several pretty intense scenes with just the Doctor and Rose. It's interesting that the scene where they're sitting together stripping wires has one of the most 'equals' vibes yet, considering that what comes next is the Doctor sending her home. His rather awed comment that it never occurred to her to run away actually shows that in this respect he feels she's rather more than his equal, because he's always running away. Of course, it not occurring to her is possibly more a symptom of her faith in him and her general naivety than of her courage or sense, but the Doctor is definitely awed by it, and it seems to be this that makes him decide to send her home. And his face as he sends the TARDIS away shows just how much it costs him.

Rose, of course, immediately starts trying to get back to rescue the Doctor. And here, finally, there is a plot reason for her falling in love with him. Because she comes back because she wants her Doctor safe. So while I don't really like the fact that she saves everyone so easily upon her return, at least there's a reason for that return. On the other hand, I personally would have been quite happy for the Doctor to have pulled the lever and had to deal with having killed everyone on earth as well as Gallifrey. Rose using the Time Vortex to atomise all the Daleks felt like a bit of a cop-out – too easy.


The Kisses

I left these till the end because they seemed a good way to sum up. Rather neatly, each pairing gets a kiss in The Parting Of The Ways - and none of them are (in canon) sexual.

When Jack kisses Rose, it's enthusiastic on his part (in typical Jack fashion) and definitely surprised on hers. The little giggle she gives, and the way she sort of bites her lip afterwards, are the reactions of a young girl who's been given a big sloppy kiss goodbye by her favourite uncle. All right, he's not really her uncle and he kissed her on the mouth, but it's that sort of kiss. It's not the sort of kiss you get between two people who are involved in a relationship.

When Jack kisses the Doctor, on the other hand, they both look a lot more at home. The Doctor looks just a tiny bit surprised, perhaps by the fact that Jack's actually being pretty dominating there, but he doesn't look surprised to be kissed. Of course, it's quite hard to gauge the Doctor's reaction, as he has his back to the camera for the entire thing, but, well, that's what I get out of it. Also, when we do get to see his face, there's definite approval. So not evidence of a relationship, but it's certainly more supportive of one than Rose's kiss.

Finally, there's the Doctor kissing Rose to reclaim the Time Vortex. Very nicely done, I feel. It's chaste enough to maintain the non-relationship vibe, but absolutely filled with emotion because it's the Doctor saying 'thank you' and 'you're wonderful' and, in a way, 'good-bye'. But it's not, to me, a sexual kiss. And definitely not evidence for a relationship.


Conclusion

The only really likely relationship I can see here is Jack/Doctor. You don't have to see it, if you don't like the idea, but if you do like it there's a lot to support it. And it's interesting, and charged, and it works. As for the others, nope.

Comments

[smithy161.livejournal.com]

Too tired to read this tonight (I want to be able to concentrate on it) but I had to say - yay, you posted it!

[unfeathered]

Thank you :-)

I'm too tired to read it too. Hopefully it makes some sense!

[fandom-me.livejournal.com]

I skipped to the conclusion, but I agree.

Doesn't mean I won't ever write something else, but I do agree.

[unfeathered]

Well, I should hope you agree - we've all had enough discussions on the subject! *g*

And yeah. I am perfectly capable of writing something else and backing it up just fine. (Though the only variation I can think of that I'd actually want to write is one where there are NO relationships going on.) I just wanted to get my own personal canon on this thing sorted out, and I think I have. :-)

[fandom-me.livejournal.com]

Yeah, pretty much. I can write and enjoy no-shipping or Jack/Doctor. I can write reasonably Rose/Jack/Doctor, and justify it, but I wouldn't like it. I can not, will not, and will never, write Rose/Doctor or Rose/Jack. I see the appeal for others, but I can't wrap my head far enough to do the writing.

[unfeathered]

Well... I supposed I could just about write a threesome if pushed to it by, say, someone requesting it - but I'd really rather not. :-)

[dune-drd.livejournal.com]

(And when he explains his plan in the next episode – that he intended to get 50% of the money off the 'Time Agents' and then get the Chula ship blown up before they could get to it – I don't think he realised he'd already blown that plan because he'd told Rose a bomb would drop on the ship in two hours anyway!)


I alwas saw that as something he did deliberate, as a method to keep his cons in a definite time frame, to stop the Agents from calling backup or HQ. I can think of a number of things Jack could do to make them conveniently 'forget' said deadline ;)

[unfeathered]

OK, I like that theory, especially the number of things Jack could do to make them conveniently 'forget' said deadline! *g*

[donutsweeper.livejournal.com]

the bomb blowing up the chula 'warship' always bugged me a bit, bcause he would have had no way of knowing exactly when the timeship he 'threw' it at would have landed exactly.

I never really saw the Rose/Doctor love thing, more of the kind of relationship you see between them. A bit of a hero crush but then Jack skewed things a bit, seen by the examples you gave as well as the way Rose asked the Doctor to do a scan for alien tech (but he didn't want to) while Jack instant thinks of scanning for alien tech as a way to find the Doctor and Rose says "finally, a professional" you can just see her rethinking things in her eyes (like "hummm, this is how a time travel bloke is supposed to act")

[unfeathered]

Yeah, the whole con thing just doesn't seem to work very well for me. Though see seti_drd's comment above. :-)

And yeah, I suppose I could have mentioned the "Finally - a professional" bit. I think I mentioned enough though! :-)

[chatona.livejournal.com]

That made an awful lot of sense which is awesome. Heh. The words 'awful' and 'awesome' always amused me for some reason. Anyway. Good meta, methinks.

I don't quite agree with everything you've pointed out about Jack and the Doctor, but I definitely agree with most of it and their respective relationships with Rose seem exactly the way you described them to me.

What I don't quite agree with is the whole D/s business, but I guess you're right there, it can be understood that way. Just 'cause I don't doesn't mean that it can't be done, right?

*bounces happily* All in all, though? I really enjoyed reading it and it was well structured and made sense and all those things. Yay! :D

[unfeathered]

Thank you - I'm really glad you enjoyed it.

And tbh the whole Doctor/Jack thing is almost certainly not canon and we're just trawling for evidence in what was on-screen - and those of us who like the D/s thing look for evidence of that, and those who don't, don't! :-)

I think the thing that does come across is what I've said in several different places recently: two strong personalities, but with the Doctor definitely coming across as the dominant one. You don't have to extrapolate far to extend that to the bedroom.

[chatona.livejournal.com]

Of course we're all just searching for evidence to support our personal canon *laughs* 's just natural, isn't it?

I do agree with the whole two strong personalities-thing. It's one of the reasons I love them so much, both alone and as a pairing and I can see the reasoning about the whole D/s thing. 's not like I mind, either. I don't. I guess to a certain extend I even integrate it into my own personal canon. Like, Doctor on top, if someone gets tied up, 's definitely Jack... I don't know. Maybe I just don't label it as D/s in my head? Maybe that's it? I'm not sure.
I mean, what I like a lot about them is, while they both have strong personalities and it's clear that the Doctor's in charge, they're still equals, or at least very close to it. And I'd like to think that extends to the bedroom, too. I might be a tiny bit uncomfortable with a relationship in which the partners aren't equal. That's probably my main problem with D/s, even though I do know that it doesn't have to be about .. lack of equality or however you want to put it. The whole trust-issue, for example, I do like that. A lot. I really don't mind D/s as long as they're still.. equals. And now I've come to a point where I'm just repeating myself, so I'll just shut up. Did that make any sense at all?

[unfeathered]

Becky would probably explain this better, but as far as I'm aware the thing about D/s is that both partners are equals. It's not about one taking advantage of the other or anything. The bottom just gives up power (temporarily or permanently) to the top, and the top takes responsibility for the bottom.

Which is why we like to write TW Jack as submissive, because he has all that responsibility and it's nice sometimes for him to just give that up and have someone take responsibility for him for a while.

[chatona.livejournal.com]

And I'm entirely okay with that definition of D/s. Even like it, I guess.

I don't think I can explain this properly. I don't even know if it fits into the category of D/s or not, but what makes me uncomfortable with the idea is, for example, seeing two guys on the street with one of them wearing a collar and following the other guy around like a dog.

'm not saying that anyone here portrays Jack and the Doctor and their relationship in that way or that I think it's wrong - I think people can do whatever they want as long as it doesn't hurt anyone, really - but it's something that makes me personally uncomfortable.

So, I guess the whole issue I have with D/s isn't really about the way you write Jack and the Doctor, for example. I like that and I don't have any problems with that. It's more of a general nature.

I probably suck at explaning this, don't I?

[unfeathered]

two guys on the street with one of them wearing a collar and following the other guy around like a dog.

Hey, the idea of that makes me uncomfortable too! It think that's the very extreme end of it.

And definitely not what we're talking about with Jack and the Doctor. I really, cannot see Jack in a collar with the Doctor (maybe with someone else) and most certainly not a lead! In fact I suppose I don't really need to say what I do see it as, because it's what I've written, and what Becky's written. In fact, some of the most interesting stories are where there's no bondage or collars etc., just someone dominating someone else and the someone else enjoying it.

[chatona.livejournal.com]

Yeah. It's not something I'm comfortable seeing now and when that happened, I was twelve and really didn't need to see it. But, never mind. 's just a part of this city, in a way. And I love my city *bounces*

Isn't it interesting how I can go from one topic to a completely different one and still have it make sense in my head? *beams*

Anyway. I can't see that happening with the Doctor and Jack, either, and as I said already I quite like the D/s you (and Becky as well) write. And I do agree wholeheartedly that it can be more interesting without any "formal" signs of submission such as bondage or collar or whatever. It might be those that make me a bit uncomfortable, too. I'm not entirely sure.

Yeah. So. I think basically we're both agreeing to the same thing, aren't we? *bounces* I can't believe I'm discussing D/s over the Internet while sitting in a school library supervised by a nun. Huh. How's you today, by the way?

[unfeathered]

I can't believe I'm discussing D/s over the Internet while sitting in a school library supervised by a nun.

LOL. And I'm at work, and my next-door lady is in today, so I can't go and read any of the stories on my flist, even though there's still not much work to do! Ah well...

I'm a tiny bit hungover and tired today, so no writing on the cards for the moment, but otherwise fine.

How's you? :-)

[chatona.livejournal.com]

I'm great :D Bit tired, but I just received a letter from my best friend in Ireland which made me insanely happy *beams*

So, yay. Grinning and bouncing describes it quite well.

[fandom-me.livejournal.com]

I saw my name come up and I'm going to skip out trying to give a concise explanation, except to say: Hi. I'm real life D/s.

D/s isn't about taking away someone's dignity, pride, or power. It doesn't take away anything. It's about exchange. Of power, of information. That means if someone's giving up power, they're getting the other person's back.

That it makes you uncomfortable is more than okay - it happens a lot. If it's something you're not comfortable reading - no harm, no foul. If you're shying away or making assumptions about real life people because of that discomfort, it's something you should probably try to work on getting your head around, just so you don't end up hurting someone.

It's not just a plot device. It's not even just a lifestyle. It's sexuality.

And, edited to add - I'm not trying to be snappish. I'm sorry if I'm coming across that way. It's just very much a real world issue for me, and I'm *just* tired enough to be incapable of thinking of better phrasing.

[unfeathered]

Hey, be nice to the kid! :-)

Sorry, I did think of asking you along to join in, but we seemed to be getting there anyway.... :-)

[fandom-me.livejournal.com]

I'm going to try to say this as nicely as possible, and I know I'm going to fail because it's one of those issues for me that's always going to be a button.

BDSM for a lot of people is hot, it's a fetish, and they get off on it. There's nothing wrong with that. There's nothing wrong with not getting off on it either. But being uncomfortable around a couple in a D/s relationship usually comes with tones of 'inappropriateness' or with the idea that anyone engaging in such behaviour is psychologically damaged.

Lack of exposure is absolutely something to be combated, but in all honesty, if someone's wearing a collar and leash and walking down the street it's no more call for discomfort than seeing a couple of guys walking down the street holding hands, and it's no less unpleasant for the people involved.

[unfeathered]

OK. I'm sorry. It is a difficult issue and for me the uncomfortable thing is very much a case of very straight-laced parents and it having taken a very long time not to have an instinctive uncomfortable reaction to, for instance, two guys walking down the street holding hands. (I personally have never seen anyone in a collar etc!)

My head is all for everyone doing whatever they want, but I can't control my gut reactions. And I do not think of either example as unpleasant. It's a matter of me not knowing how to react, feeling embarrassed, thus me agreeing with Chatona about feeling uncomfortable.

And it's far harder to accept things instinctively in real life than when writing/reading about them. I guess a lot of that is down to lack of exposure, as you say.

Does that make sense?

[fandom-me.livejournal.com]

Oh, it makes total sense and I do get it! I didn't mean to imply that you can help your gut level instinctual responses. Everyone has something that makes me squirm.

Being embarrassed or not knowing how to react happens. I get that, and really exposure's just about the only thing you can do to combat it. Exposure and familiarity and desensitization, and of course the willing to research and learn, so you can say, like you just did, "Hey. This is because I'm not familiar with it."

You? Didn't offend me at all, really. You never have.

The comparison to a dog? And not needing to see two clothed people walking down a street?

THAT is what led to my fairly short reply. I'm not pissed off, angry, or trying to remove heads. I'm just trying to point out that when it gets to that particular point, it's probably time to look at yourself and your knee jerk judgements. "I'm uncomfortable with this" isn't a judgement. "Like a dog" is.

If you follow, at all?

[unfeathered]

OK, phew! I would really, really hate to fall out over this - or anything, but you know what I mean! :-)

And yes, I do follow, totally, but to be fair, collar + leash is like a dog! Yes, it is a judgement, but I don't think it's a huge one.

[fandom-me.livejournal.com]

Oh, I'm not about to fall out with you. I'm pretty bluntly honest, but that means I tell you more or less what I'm thinking when I'm thinking it.

And when something gets to me.

Sure, to be fair it is a canine association in most people's mind. I still promise the association's not a pleasant one, even for the guy reading the collar and leash, unless he's mid-puppy-play scene. Like I said. I get it. It just. There's a point where you need to be aware of potential harm and try to avoid it.

That's ALL, really.

[unfeathered]

Blunt is fine - I can be rather blunt myself, and I'd rather have honesty any day than trying to skirt around an issue.

But yeah, I think we're done here. :-)

[fandom-me.livejournal.com]

Skirting doesn't work, at least for me. I get bit in the ass when I try, and just feel dishonest.

...Yep, except where I eyeball the accidently capitalized All in my rep.

[chatona.livejournal.com]

Hi *waves*

Right. Long and meaningful comment. I shall try to answer in kind.

D/s isn't about taking away someone's dignity, pride, or power.

Okay. I can accept that as a definition of D/s and I'm okay with that. The thought of taking away someone's dignity makes me uncomfortable. If you say D/s is not about that, good. As a consequence that means D/s as you define it.

Now, I'll be the first to admit that I know very little about D/s and I realise that means I should probably just keep my mouth shut and not form an opinion about it until I do know what it really is about.

So, yeah, I realise that all those opinions I do have about D/s are based on assumption and that is wrong and dangerous. Which is why I try not to form any opinions. I guess everyone would agree with me, though, that that's a rather hard task. What I can say about myself is that I'm definitely willing to change my opinion upon learning new facts.

Also, I want to add that I never said it was about taking away someone's dignity, pride or power. I did assume that it can be about these things. My apologies if that assumption was wrong and thank for for setting that one right :D

If you're shying away or making assumptions about real life people because of that discomfort

Okay. I realise we don't know each other and I really hope that my comments before didn't come across as me judging anyone or shying away from anyone.
I try to be an open person. Can't say I always succeed, but I try. I don't think D/s is wrong and I know that even if I did think that, I wouldn't have the right to judge. And I don't think the fact that I am uncomfortable with expressions of D/s in general would make me shy away from an individual, but I don't have proof of that.

I hope I didn't offend you or hurt you or annoy you in any way. It wasn't my intention to judge or insult, I was trying to explain myself.
Which is what I'm trying to do right now, too, and I'm not sure if I manage it all too well. Sorry 'bout that.

And while your comment did come across as a bit snappish, that's quite okay. There's probably stuff in my comment that sounds snappish, too, even though it's really not meant that way and besides, I do get why someone would react snappishly to some of my choices of words up there. I probably should have phrased things better, been more careful in my choice of words, expressed myself better. That kind of thing.

So, all in all, I hope that made sense and I'm sorry that you felt the need to clarify things and thank you for doing so.

Hope I didn't forget any important points :D

[chatona.livejournal.com]

Ack. Right. There you go. Of course I have to go and not finish a sentence right in the middle of that reply. What I meant to say was

If you say D/s is not about that, good. As a consequence that means D/s as you define it is something I have no trouble accepting and am not uncomfortable with.

Sorry :D

[fandom-me.livejournal.com]

I do that all the time - the sentence thing. D/s is really weirdly hard to get, but mostly I think it's because people try too hard. That, and well it sounds bad! "I give my power up" = I have no pwoer, right? That makes LOGICAL SENSE. It's just not necessarily right.

Honestly, and this is going to sound odd, but D/s isn't that different than any other relationship. The submissive 'gives' by taking care of the dominant and making them happy. The dominant 'takes' by taking responsibility for making sure the submissive is cared for and happy.

It's just... ritualized and formal. Okay. Nap before my brain leaks out my ear and I start being *less* articulate.

[unfeathered]

Sleep well :-)

[chatona.livejournal.com]

And I actually previewed the comment to make sure that didn't happen *pouts* And just when I clicked on 'post comment' I realised that it had happened again.

Your definition of D/s sounds really nice *bounces* I think I worked it out. Why I'm uncomfortable with the idea of D/s. 's about trust, in a way, isn't it? The submissive trusts the dominant to take the responsibility of making sure that the submissive is cared for and happy. And, well. I think it's the trust part I have a problem with. I think it's awesome if you can trust someone like that. I just don't think I can. So the idea of D/s makes me uncomfortable 'cause I'm unable to trust that the submissive will be cared for and happy. 's personal and really shouldn't concern anyone else.

Which is why I really don't mind if anyone is in a D/s relationship. If it makes them happy, great. It's just the general idea of it that makes me uncomfortable.

And, well. The thing about the two guys on the street that I (badly) described earlier on? I think the reason why that makes me uncomfortable is simply lack of familiarity.

I really hope this is understandable. I find it sort of hard to use the English language as precisely as I'd like to.

[fandom-me.livejournal.com]

It is absolutely about trust, and it makes a *lot* of sense that if trust is something you have trouble with, it's something that would make you uncomfortable. It makes perfect sense. In fact it makes more sense than I can easily articulate

Interestingly and it may be insulting so I'm sorry if it is, I'm actually doing a story with Jack in Torchwood based around that premise - about trust. I don't know why I feel like I'm *just realizing* that now, but. You've definitely given me a lightbulb moment about *why* stuff is uneasy sometimes, that maybe I didn't quite get before. Thank you for that.

(And it's all very, very, understandable.)

[unfeathered]

I don't know why I feel like I'm *just realizing* that now,

Especially after all our 'trust and need' conversations...! *g*

But yeah, I think that is a problem for a lot of 'lay' people - the idea of having to /being able to trust someone else that much.

It is, I may say, the reason why I have never actually tried to get Andy interested in trying D/s or anything like it - because I just don't trust him that much. I trust his intentions, but he does have anger management issues and he can be violent, and there is no way I could trust him enough.

Which is probably why I spend so much time reading and writing about it... :-)

[fandom-me.livejournal.com]

I understand needing trust to do it - it's that extra little step into being uncomfortable *around* that kind of trust/being able to trust like that. It's important, and it makes total sense, but it's a half step further than I was taking it, because I've been doing BDSM for more than a decade, and I have to kind of yank now and then and puzzle out the 'normal'/mainstream/whatever view.

Sounds like a good decision and one I admire the hell out of you for making. There've been a couple of situations with real life friends lately, where I wish they would have been *half* that smart.

[unfeathered]

Oh, I have come so close to approaching him about it, so many times... but I don't think he gets the appeal anyway. So it's just going to have to stay fantasy for me. :-)

And you know what, meta post or not, I'm flocking this post. I sent him links to the few of my stories that aren't abotu sex this morning and I don't want him walking in on this! *g*

[fandom-me.livejournal.com]

I think the problem with fantasty - and I'm speaking personally here - is that it's something you want. You really really want it. Oh, maybe you know it's not practical but the *want this thing* is still there. So it becomes easy to justify and let things slide and then end up dead in a barrell in a hotel room because you turned into an idiot.

..>Don't mind me. The BDSM community has scarred me for life. Anyway!

Eeek. Yeah, locks are good. Locks are really really good.

[chatona.livejournal.com]

Yeah. I'm quite aware that I have trust issues. Someone screwed up the whole trust-thing for me pretty early in my life. So, yeah. Trust is something I can be very uncomfortable with - in both directions. I'm not comfortable with trusting people, but I'm not comfortable with the responsibility that comes with someone trusting me, either. Gah. Eh, right. Whatever :D

So, glad that all made sense and was understandable.

And... why would it be insulting? *tilts head* Really. I don't get that. Why would I be insulted by you writing a story based on the premise of trust?

Glad I helped you figure that out, though *bounces*

[fandom-me.livejournal.com]

(I am falling asleep, so I'm probably going to bugger off, but I wanted to reply: I didn't want you to think I was comparing your real life issues with something I'm doing in a story, and implying that the story was anywhere near as important. It was just the thing that clanked off in my brain as reference when you said it. Real people ALWAYS matter more.)

[chatona.livejournal.com]

Sleep well :D

And I didn't think that, but yay for consideration anyway :D

[fandom-me.livejournal.com]

Wow, what an awesome comment - and I'm way, way, too sleepy to do more than say that: I really, really, didn't want to sound like I was biting your head off. I'm not angry or pissy, or anything. I just had a moment of going "Dog?" Not your fault, and discomfort happens, especially in situations you're not familiar with. And. I'm circling around again.

Anyway, I'm really glad you took the time to leave me such a fantastic comment to explain, and thank you, so much for not getting upset at *ME*.

[chatona.livejournal.com]

Uhm. Why would I get upset at you when clearly, you have a point? :D

As for the Dog-comparison... It really wasn't meant as a judgement, though I do realise it can be interpreted as such. It's the leash + collar thing. Makes me think of like a dog. It's an analogy that has nothing to do with D/s or the people involved or people in general. Honestly. I once put my bunny on a leash to take him out in the garden (back I still had one, that is) and that was like a dog, too. And I really, really don't mean to imply that bunny = person or person = dog or bunny = dog or anything like that.
Am I making sense at all?

Anyway. Point being, glad we're not going to be angry at each other or hating or wanking or bitching or something :D

*bounces*

[fandom-me.livejournal.com]

I have a really good guilt complex, and I really hate upsetting people *G* I just didn't want you to feel attacked.

I really am glad you cleared it up - and appreciate it, hugely. I get it, upon reflection. I just had a "...dog?!" reaction. I think it's because it's also used as an insult.

You're making perfect sense, and I'm REALLY glad we're getting to talk it out too. Talk is good. Wank and bitching are bad.

[chatona.livejournal.com]

Heh. I hate upsetting people, too. Which is why my initial reaction was to go all Oh, shit, what did I do wrong, where's the misunderstanding? and then trying to clear it up.

Yeah. I totally get how it could be understood as an insult or a judgement when I said it, too. Just, I really didn't mean it that way :D

Yeah. Talk is good. Communication is really important. I hate that so many people just jump to conclusions and then start to wank 'cause they're either inable or just too lazy to take a step back and think about what has been said and why there's a disagreement and then try to really talk about it. 'cause most of the time those who start the discussion (in our case, that would be you) do have a valid point. They really should teach people how to communicate.

[fandom-me.livejournal.com]

You'd think with everyone on line being literate there'd be more communication - sadly, apparently that's not the case. I mean, sure, disagree or run into miscommunicatio - it happens. But for the love of Pete *Talk it out*.

[chatona.livejournal.com]

Exactly my point :D