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Shows how busy writing I am, that I watched this on Thursday and wanted to write it up but felt fic should come first! Master Plan Part 7 is nicely underway (though there's still a long way to go yet), and this evening I've actually started on my Big Bang fic. Yes, I know, yesterday I said I wasn't going to start it till January, but living around Anything Goes at the moment got me thinking about Cole Porter and gave me a few ideas, including one for the opening few paragraphs. It feels good to have made a start, but I'm not rushing into this one. I still have a hell of a lot of research to do on the period and Cole Porter!
Anyway. The review.
First of all, see this for my thoughts on Steven Moffat's recurring character… :-)
Apart from that, the main thing I noticed about this episode was the amazing chemistry between the main characters. Last episode it was Rose and Jack, with Jack turning on the charm full blast – and who could resist that? This time, with the three of them together, it was the Doctor who took centre stage. We had a very entertaining (and hot!) demonstration of Jack and the Doctor jostling for alpha position and gradually starting to trust and respect each other (not that Jack made that easy, with his teleporting away without warning anyone what he was doing) and figure out how their relationship was going to work.
But there was also surprising chemistry between Rose and the Doctor. I say surprising, because so far all I'd seen was Rose smitten by the Doctor and a vague fondness on his part. But here, for the first time the Doctor comes down to human level and starts actually flirting. Faced with competition (serious competition – Mickey doesn't count!), the Doctor starts to behave less like Rose's father and more like a normal man. Now, I'm not going into OTP land here, because I'm still just seeing crush on her part and older-man fondness on his, but it's definitely a development of the more equal, less father-daughter relationship that was begun in Father's Day.
Also, on a more shallow note, for the first time I actually found the Ninth Doctor hot. Perhaps because he was actually behaving like a sexual being for the first time. But definitely hot (especially at the beginning when he's having a go at Jack), and I wasn't expecting that.
The story about the 'empty' child was still, I feel, pretty much just a vehicle to introduce and reform Jack and therefore not the most important part of the episode, but I liked the way it was told. The child's room with all the drawings of his mummy was chilling, and the whole 'bomb'-site scene was excellent. I love the resolution, even if it is a bit feeble upon closer examination, because it hits all the right buttons and it made me cry.
So many good bits in this one. "It's got the power of a God, and I just sent it to its room!" Jack trying to shoot the child with a banana and his admiring "Nice switch!" to the Doctor. The Doctor not wanting Jack to know that his sonic 'weapon' is just a screwdriver. The conversation about 'assets': "Well, I've got a banana and in a pinch you could put up some shelves." (Brilliant!) The whole conversation about 'dancing'. "Actually, I quit. Nobody takes my frock." (So very Jack.) "Didn't look like talking!" - "Didn't feel like dancing!" The bit about two years' memories and "Your friend over there doesn't trust me, and for all I know, he's right not to."
Jack going to 'distract' Algy – and then having to watch him die, making it personal. Nancy singing a lullaby to the soldier who's been taken over. Nancy's "What future?" and Rose telling her the English win the war. Jack's face as he realises what he's done by releasing the nanogenes – that it's all his fault. The Doctor, happy: "Just this once, everybody lives!" The thrown-in-rather-like-the-Face-of-Boe-thing (i.e. to make you boggle) – "Look at you, beaming like you're Father Christmas!" - "Who says I'm not, red bicycle when you were twelve?" (Very cool.) Jack preparing for death, chatting to the computer and initiating Emergency Protocol 417 (martini). The very interesting snippet about the last time he was sentenced to death he had four hyper-vodkas and woke up in bed with the two executioners (has anyone written this fic yet, and if not, why not? *g*).
And the pay-off of the Doctor and Rose not noticing they'd been transported to Jack's ship because they were dancing – Jack about to die a hero and not noticing the TARDIS had docked with his ship! And "Much bigger on the inside" – "You'd better be!"
I also thought it was interesting that Jack could have been written out very easily by simply letting him die, having had a very satisfactory redemption arc. Especially interesting since we know he was always intended to be around for the next three episodes and then whatever the spin-off that became Torchwood was going to be.
Shame we didn't get to see Jack dancing at the end. I get why, for story purposes, it had to be Rose and the Doctor, but it was a shame. JB's such a good dancer.
One little quibble: I don't get the bit about Villenguard. Jack says he can't get another blaster because it's "Gone now." It blew up. Why can't they just go back to before it blew up? Surely that's the point of time travel!
Anyway, a really, really good episode, with loads and loads of great moments - and Captain Jack!
9.5/10
Anyway. The review.
First of all, see this for my thoughts on Steven Moffat's recurring character… :-)
Apart from that, the main thing I noticed about this episode was the amazing chemistry between the main characters. Last episode it was Rose and Jack, with Jack turning on the charm full blast – and who could resist that? This time, with the three of them together, it was the Doctor who took centre stage. We had a very entertaining (and hot!) demonstration of Jack and the Doctor jostling for alpha position and gradually starting to trust and respect each other (not that Jack made that easy, with his teleporting away without warning anyone what he was doing) and figure out how their relationship was going to work.
But there was also surprising chemistry between Rose and the Doctor. I say surprising, because so far all I'd seen was Rose smitten by the Doctor and a vague fondness on his part. But here, for the first time the Doctor comes down to human level and starts actually flirting. Faced with competition (serious competition – Mickey doesn't count!), the Doctor starts to behave less like Rose's father and more like a normal man. Now, I'm not going into OTP land here, because I'm still just seeing crush on her part and older-man fondness on his, but it's definitely a development of the more equal, less father-daughter relationship that was begun in Father's Day.
Also, on a more shallow note, for the first time I actually found the Ninth Doctor hot. Perhaps because he was actually behaving like a sexual being for the first time. But definitely hot (especially at the beginning when he's having a go at Jack), and I wasn't expecting that.
The story about the 'empty' child was still, I feel, pretty much just a vehicle to introduce and reform Jack and therefore not the most important part of the episode, but I liked the way it was told. The child's room with all the drawings of his mummy was chilling, and the whole 'bomb'-site scene was excellent. I love the resolution, even if it is a bit feeble upon closer examination, because it hits all the right buttons and it made me cry.
So many good bits in this one. "It's got the power of a God, and I just sent it to its room!" Jack trying to shoot the child with a banana and his admiring "Nice switch!" to the Doctor. The Doctor not wanting Jack to know that his sonic 'weapon' is just a screwdriver. The conversation about 'assets': "Well, I've got a banana and in a pinch you could put up some shelves." (Brilliant!) The whole conversation about 'dancing'. "Actually, I quit. Nobody takes my frock." (So very Jack.) "Didn't look like talking!" - "Didn't feel like dancing!" The bit about two years' memories and "Your friend over there doesn't trust me, and for all I know, he's right not to."
Jack going to 'distract' Algy – and then having to watch him die, making it personal. Nancy singing a lullaby to the soldier who's been taken over. Nancy's "What future?" and Rose telling her the English win the war. Jack's face as he realises what he's done by releasing the nanogenes – that it's all his fault. The Doctor, happy: "Just this once, everybody lives!" The thrown-in-rather-like-the-Face-of-Boe-thing (i.e. to make you boggle) – "Look at you, beaming like you're Father Christmas!" - "Who says I'm not, red bicycle when you were twelve?" (Very cool.) Jack preparing for death, chatting to the computer and initiating Emergency Protocol 417 (martini). The very interesting snippet about the last time he was sentenced to death he had four hyper-vodkas and woke up in bed with the two executioners (has anyone written this fic yet, and if not, why not? *g*).
And the pay-off of the Doctor and Rose not noticing they'd been transported to Jack's ship because they were dancing – Jack about to die a hero and not noticing the TARDIS had docked with his ship! And "Much bigger on the inside" – "You'd better be!"
I also thought it was interesting that Jack could have been written out very easily by simply letting him die, having had a very satisfactory redemption arc. Especially interesting since we know he was always intended to be around for the next three episodes and then whatever the spin-off that became Torchwood was going to be.
Shame we didn't get to see Jack dancing at the end. I get why, for story purposes, it had to be Rose and the Doctor, but it was a shame. JB's such a good dancer.
One little quibble: I don't get the bit about Villenguard. Jack says he can't get another blaster because it's "Gone now." It blew up. Why can't they just go back to before it blew up? Surely that's the point of time travel!
Anyway, a really, really good episode, with loads and loads of great moments - and Captain Jack!
9.5/10
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But then there's that slight desperation when he realises there's actually no way out. Because Jack loves life, and hates not having any more options. He goes a little bit hysterical for about three seconds ('under the sink?!') and then he comes to terms with it.
I just... really love that scene. It's everything Jack is.
And, of course, Rose, Jack and the Doctor's dialogue utterly wins.
As for Villenguard... maybe Jack can't go back because he'd cross his own timeline somehow? I'm not sure about that either. Because it's not as if his timeline is exactly linear as it is...
Oh! And! This episode made me cry too. If I ever meet Moffat, he's one of the few people I'd hug on sight.
Awesome episode; awesome review.
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I jsut want to see Moffat writing him again, in any way, shape or form. RTD didn't do him justice in Utopia or Sound of Drums, and seemed to forget he was part of the story in LotTL.
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I'll throw in my cat's soul too!
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And with the two of you on the S3 thing too!
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Simm!Master almost made up for it. Okay, 'almost' is pushing it, but he was a fair distraction from the lack of Jack.
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He is, even when we first meet him, noble and selfless, but some part of him doesn't believe it, or doesn't want to believe it, and so he covers it all up with the charm and the jokes and the conman routine.
Yes. I've been thinking about this a bit (partly because the version of Jack I'm going to use in my Big Bang story is Jack just after he's left the Time Agency) and I can't help wondering just what made him think so badly of himself. If it's because he thinks he must have done something dreadful during those two years, or if it's because he's been forced to do some dreadful things just to survive since leaving, or... what?
As for Villenguard... maybe Jack can't go back because he'd cross his own timeline somehow? I'm not sure about that either. Because it's not as if his timeline is exactly linear as it is...
Exactly. I so wish they'd make up their minds about these things. I mean - it's a show about time travel! Surely they must have some theories/decisions about this sort of thing!
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LOL!
In general, I'm not a fan of the show Charmed, but there's this one scene where someone is trying to explain why this time travel thing worked and one of the sisters just held up her hand and said "I already have a headache, nevermind" or something like that.
It's time travel. Just go with it. If you try to make sense of it your head will explode.
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Jack is by far the most interesting character to come out of new!Who. No one else comes close. He's so mind-bendingly complex, no wonder so much fic revolves around him. It takes essays just to get close to figuring him out... and then you have to factor in that how we see him isn't particularly similar to how he sees himself.
Really looking forward to seeing your younger!Jack. Actually, the whole big bang thing has me really excited!
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And yeah, totally with you about the character. What started me really writing fanfic was trying to figure out Jack trying to come to terms with immortality (must dig those out and post them at some point, though they've been pretty much jossed now) because it just fascinates me. How much not being able to die must change a person.
I'm really looking forward to seeing my younger Jack too! Don't know much about him yet! *g*
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I really love Jack fic where he's either lots older, or lots younger than we've seen him, and I really do wish they would do a young!Jack episode of Torchwood, or something. But at the same time, I don't want to quite understand him. I like having a similar mystery about him as the Doctor does around his past.
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And yes, mystery is good, because it's what makes both characters so interesting. But it's a mixed blessing when it comes to writing them. On the one hand, it gives you a lot of scope to fill in the blanks, but it also means you personally have to try to figure them out at least to a certain extent so you can motivate them!
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you personally have to try to figure them out at least to a certain extent so you can motivate them!
That's why I write, really. To fill in the gaps and the 'could have's.
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Some of my favorite fics (in tw genre and elsewhere) are the episode tags, where it's just the little scene missing from a episode and so often you read it and go... yeah, now it makes sense!
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One writer I particularly love is
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I became absolutely obsessed with him like that for awhile... oldJack can be quite interesting to write for
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But yes, it's fun to take what we've got now, and what we know about his past, and work out where he's going.
(thoughts on the Face of Boe thing?)
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FOB= evil and no way. It just doesn't work, the Doctor is supposed to be able to feel the 'fixed point' bit in Jack, but doesn't see it in FOB? (I could go on for hours about this)
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Jack the drug addicted prostitute probably isn't beyond the realms of possibility...
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http://donutsweeper.livejournal.com/tag/the+old+man
Jack shouldn't age! I get the need to deal with the fact JB ages, but all other shows with immortals just ignored it. God, that line was dumb, I just hate the concept!
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And I suppose we can take it to mean Jack will be a part of who!dom for a long time to come. But yeah... we're not idiots. We can ignore a few grey hairs and facial lines, same way old!who viewers are able to ignore the bubblewrap.
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It could have also been explained by Jack commenting about using theater techniques to appear to age to those around him
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Anywhoops, better go and do some work now. Sadly. Good night!
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Well, it helps that he's not playing a 26 year-old, or whatever.
Saying that, I wish we had some indication of how old Jack was supposed to be when he got immortalised. It's so annoying having to say he's "a hundred-plus" years or whatever instead of being able to put an actual age.
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It was a joke. I've posted about this before but I just went to look and can't find it, but basically my opinion comes down to the fact that it was either really badly written or Jack was joking, and I'm going with the latter, although I fear the former is probably more accurate. But just throwing in something like that at the end, after saying goodbye and saluting and - you wouldn't. Unless you were joking.
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And I have no ideas for writing him either. I'm sure one will turn up when I want it. No room for such a thing atm.
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little slip of the tongue/keyboard there?
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Anyway, it's great fun and really interesting talking to you two, but it's late and I've had a long day and I'm off to bed.
See you tomorrow :-)
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Loved, loved, loved these bits. Especially the assests bit, because he delivers it so well! (there is a great bit in commentary on that scene btw)
The very interesting snippet about the last time he was sentenced to death he had four hyper-vodkas and woke up in bed with the two executioners (has anyone written this fic yet, and if not, why not? *g*).
*Raises hand* I did, or tried to. It's part of a 5 bets Jack was glad he made, and one he wished he didn't that I never finished.
One little quibble: I don't get the bit about Villenguard. Jack says he can't get another blaster because it's "Gone now." It blew up. Why can't they just go back to before it blew up? Surely that's the point of time travel!
yeah.. didn't quite get that one either.. oh well.
I also thought it was interesting that Jack could have been written out very easily by simply letting him die, having had a very satisfactory redemption arc. Especially interesting since we know he was always intended to be around for the next three episodes and then whatever the spin-off that became Torchwood was going to be.
I don't think the spin off was originally planned. Nor (at first) was his being "killed off" and left behind at the end of "POtW", that bit became neccessary when Chris told them he wasn't renewing his contract.
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*Raises hand* I did, or tried to. It's part of a 5 bets Jack was glad he made, and one he wished he didn't that I never finished.
Well hurry up and finish it then! It's got to be written. *g*
I don't think the spin off was originally planned.
I was sure I'd read that RTD was planning something (though not specifically Torchwood) right from the start and that he wanted Jack to be part of it? But I do have a rather dodgy memory on these things... :-)
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unfortunately, at the moment it's one bet he's glad he made and one he wishes he hadn't.. so rather lacking...
I was sure I'd read that RTD was planning something ...
I wouldn't be shocked if he had been vaguely planning something, but given that the last attempt to revive "Who" failed miserably, it wouldn't have probably been more than a "ooh, this might work" sort of thing. My understanding was that the idea wasn't orginally a DW spinoff, but rather just humans hunting aliens by using tech on modernday earth
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Ah well, I obviously got the wrong end of the stick on that one then.
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Err... I'll hunt for the fic. Currently I'm obsessed by 2 plot bunnies, if they let me go long enough I'll take a look at it and see if it's worth a damn, I wrote it ages ago and my grasp of fanfic was terrible back then.
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*sends motivation*