I've been sitting catching up on some of the discussions in my flist about the RTD news (which is fantastic, by the way!) and came to a couple of realisations.
1. That virtually all the DW fans in my flist appear to be more Moffat fans than Davies fans, which made me realise that
2. There is literally no-one left in my flist from those wonderful few years I spent gushing about DW and TW with, and swapping fics and character discussions with. Okay, a handful are still occasionally active on Dreamwidth or LJ, but I don't think any of them watch Doctor Who anymore. I know it was only really a year or two, from 2007 to around 2009 before the joy started to taper out amongst a lot of my friends, but honestly a part of that I think was the fact that RTD was running out of steam, and then there was a year without much Who or TW, and by the time Moffat arrived most people either weren't watching any more or didn't like him much. Hell, I didn't like him much either, though he has grown on me a LOT over the years, especially with the help of lots of meta and explanations from people like![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png)
elisi.
But I don't think there's anyone left here from that wonderful golden age of my first few years on LJ who I can squee with about the return of the man who made me love Doctor Who, and that makes me sad.
On the other hand, I have lots of newer friends here I can squee with and hope that RTD does even better this time around, now he's had a chance to grow and reflect and learn what works and what doesn't.
Don't get me wrong, I certainly don't think he was ever perfect. I had plenty of issues with his writing, especially lack of attention to continuity, and second parts of two-parters that didn't feel like they delivered on the expectations set up in the first parts. But I came into the Who fandom off the back of the Buffy fandom, and Davies' Nu Who was definitely set up in the Buffy model, with a wonderful mix of drama and humour and feels, and that's what made me love it, and become a fan rather than just a viewer as I had been with the classic series. And, as I wrote recently, starting to rewatch the Sarah Jane Adventures after rewatching Chibnall's most recent season made me realise how much of that DW has lost.
I'm not expecting miracles, but I am hoping that RTD will deliver me stories that move me and characters I can care about, because that's what I've been missing the last few years!
1. That virtually all the DW fans in my flist appear to be more Moffat fans than Davies fans, which made me realise that
2. There is literally no-one left in my flist from those wonderful few years I spent gushing about DW and TW with, and swapping fics and character discussions with. Okay, a handful are still occasionally active on Dreamwidth or LJ, but I don't think any of them watch Doctor Who anymore. I know it was only really a year or two, from 2007 to around 2009 before the joy started to taper out amongst a lot of my friends, but honestly a part of that I think was the fact that RTD was running out of steam, and then there was a year without much Who or TW, and by the time Moffat arrived most people either weren't watching any more or didn't like him much. Hell, I didn't like him much either, though he has grown on me a LOT over the years, especially with the help of lots of meta and explanations from people like
elisi.But I don't think there's anyone left here from that wonderful golden age of my first few years on LJ who I can squee with about the return of the man who made me love Doctor Who, and that makes me sad.
On the other hand, I have lots of newer friends here I can squee with and hope that RTD does even better this time around, now he's had a chance to grow and reflect and learn what works and what doesn't.
Don't get me wrong, I certainly don't think he was ever perfect. I had plenty of issues with his writing, especially lack of attention to continuity, and second parts of two-parters that didn't feel like they delivered on the expectations set up in the first parts. But I came into the Who fandom off the back of the Buffy fandom, and Davies' Nu Who was definitely set up in the Buffy model, with a wonderful mix of drama and humour and feels, and that's what made me love it, and become a fan rather than just a viewer as I had been with the classic series. And, as I wrote recently, starting to rewatch the Sarah Jane Adventures after rewatching Chibnall's most recent season made me realise how much of that DW has lost.
I'm not expecting miracles, but I am hoping that RTD will deliver me stories that move me and characters I can care about, because that's what I've been missing the last few years!
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Chibnall's Who mostly bored me, and I broke up with Doctor Who over the Timeless Child thing, but I sincerely hope RTD can bring all of his strengths and revitalise the show.
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I totally agree that both RTD and Moffat have strengths and flaws and they are both very different, and to be honest I do now enjoy a lot of Moffat's stuff as much as I enjoy a lot of RTD's. It's just that RTD is more my kind of writer/showrunner, I think.
And god yes, sooooo bored with Chibnall's Who. I really, really want to feel invested in it. I still hope this final season may somehow give that to me. I got it for a few episodes last season (the Spyfall two-parter, and Fugitive of the Judoon) so there's still hope!
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I will never understand how Chibnall's Who ended up like this. His Torchwood wasn't boring! So bizarre. (And yeah, agreed about those three episodes.)
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And it's funny, but when I try to think back to those days, what I most remember is people being mad about things - by the time End of Time was broadcast, I think there were about 3 people in all my corner of fandom who were still trying to be positive... So, here's to a new era! If nothing else, I'm sure we won't be bored.
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Yes, because you are my guide to Moffat's Who, the person who makes sense of it to me and points all the stuff I miss because my brain just doesn't work that way! :-D
what I most remember is people being mad about things
Yeah, there was a lot of anger, and as I said in my post, a lot of the excitement had already petered out by the time Moffat took over. I was one of those people still trying to be positive too, but we didn't meet each other until a bit later, I think. And I still try to be positive, because I always *want* to be excited!
I'm sure we won't be bored
Exactly. This is my main reason for being excited. I'm sure there will be plot holes galore and other things that annoy me, but I'll forgive a hell of a lot if someone gets me in my gut! :-)
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♥ I'm just glad that all my ramblings are actually being read!
And I still try to be positive, because I always *want* to be excited!
Me too! *Pollyanna fistbump*
Exactly. This is my main reason for being excited. I'm sure there will be plot holes galore and other things that annoy me, but I'll forgive a hell of a lot if someone gets me in my gut! :-)</i Also, it ought to be SO GAY! :D :D :D
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I don't think any writer can ever be perfect, but RTD's stories, as you said, moved me and I cared about his characters, and that's what I'm hoping he will bring back. Chibnall discarded all of the things about Moffat's second half that nearly made me quit the show (I won't go into that here) and brought back the fun, but his plot and character development is forced, much like Moffat's, and leaves me rather cold.
So here's me, sitting next to you, waving a little flag and hoping that RTD can recapture that magic.
(I think my husband and I are the only people in the world who actually like the Timeless Child thing, assuming that Chibnall develops it well.)
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But yes, we can now hope that Doctor Who will regain some of what it's lost in recent years, and we few who remain here can enjoy it together! :-)
I don't actually hate the Timeless Child thing in itself, but I did think it was very badly delivered, as a whole tonne of exposition with poor Thirteen just hanging there helpless, and I also think that having the *Master* deliver it was a *really* bad idea if they wanted us to actually believe he wasn't at least putting some kind of spin on it, if he was even telling the truth at all. And I also think they then made the whole thing completely pointless by having the Doctor then say it was okay, it didn't matter, she knew who she was anyway! I really hope they do actually give some meaning to it, make there some point in such a massive reveal, in the coming season.
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Oh, yes, the Timeless Child was awful! I'm glad to hear other people felt it was just a torrent of exposition. The most disappointing thing about it, to me, was that it ignored the whole concept of the Matrix being the collection of the consciousnesses of all Time Lords ever and therefore was something to be explored, rather than just a database. If they had spent an episode letting the Doctor enter the Matrix and find out on her own, with possibly having to identify and defuse the Master's interference...
But that's probably my biggest beef with Chibnall, that he constantly stops the action to have a character (usually the Doctor) explain things, rather than let the story show them. My pessimistic opinion on why he did the Timeless Child this way is that by having the Master tell the story, there's the possibility that he's lying, and therefore if he found that the fandom didn't like the twist, then in a later episode, the Doctor can find out that it's not actually true.
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Totally with you on all the Timeless Child stuff. They could have done so much more with it! Hopefully they will either address it properly this season or, as you say, have the Master admit he made it all up, or at least some of it!