Huh.

[unfeathered]

I cannot write Torchwood-era!Jack from his own POV, not when the story is about his team.

I can write it from his POV when he's on Doctor Who (i.e. Valiant and post-Valiant fic, and post-end of S4 fic). I can write from his POV when it's pre-Torchwood (e.g. crossovers with Buffyverse). I can even write him with John from his POV in RP.

And I can write Torchwood-era!Jack from other people's POV (e.g. John, Ianto). I have a very clear image of what he looks like when he's talking to them, what he sounds like.

I just don't know what the fuck is going on in his head. I don't know how he feels about them. I can't write it.

Which of course means that one day I will have to try. So far, every time I try, I still just get mannerisms etc. and no actual thoughts or feelings, so I end up just switching to the other person's POV!

Comments

[darthhellokitty.livejournal.com]

Jack in Torchwood era keeps a lot of secrets about what he thinks and feels. In a way we only know him from others' POV.

[unfeathered]

Yeah, that's true, I know. But it makes it jolly hard to write him!

[donutsweeper.livejournal.com]

*nods* makes sense, TW Jack is much more guarded than DW Jack

[unfeathered]

Yeah. I know. Still fed up about it, though. *g*

(Especially as other people seem to manage to write him fine!)

[donutsweeper.livejournal.com]

feed him donuts, that'll get him to talk! :)

*hugs*

[unfeathered]

...But only with his mouth full. *g*

[donutsweeper.livejournal.com]

hmmm, good point. Although he's probably good at charades and showing you...

[unfeathered]

But then we're just back to mannerisms! *g*

[donutsweeper.livejournal.com]

true true...

the other problem is I think S1 Jack is different from S2 Jack (pre-Utopia/Lotl vs post) are you trying to focus on one vs the other?

[unfeathered]

Um. I seem to be writing S2 Jack - since it tends to be with John... *g*

And yes, he's definitely different. Not that it helps, since I still can't get into his head!

[donutsweeper.livejournal.com]

I find the Ianto/Jack scene in "to the last man" helpful for S2 Jack-


JACK: I left home a long time ago. I don't really know where I really belong. Maybe that doesn't matter anymore.

IANTO: I – don’t you get lonely.

JACK: Going home wouldn't fix that. Being here, I've seen things I never dreamt I'd see. Loved people I never would have known if I'd just stayed where I was... And I wouldn't change that for the world.

he seems, overall, a lot more accepting of how things are and they way they are

[omphalos.livejournal.com]

While I don't have a problem with TW Jack, I completely know the feeling of just not being able to get into a character's head. When I was writing Buffyfic I just couldn't, in any way, get into the head of Buffy herself. It was a real problem at times.

Maybe you should start a series of short stories that dot through Jack's life on Earth, starting with when he first arrives back in the 19th C. and is still very much the Jack of s1 of new Who and then darting forward a decade or so for the next one and so on. Maybe once you get to the modern day, you will find you now understand what's going on in his head a bit better?

[unfeathered]

Actually, you know what, I was exactly the same with Buffy until I started RP-ing her. Then, suddenly, I finally found sympathy for the character, and understanding.

I was thinking of trying the same by RP-ing Jack, in a very similar way to what you just suggested. I have a just-post-DW S1 Jack in RP who has really helped with insights into then, but he's AU from that point onwards. But perhaps I could RP Jack at different stages. That might work, and I definitely find RP very enlightening. Playing them against a different person definitely, definitely helps!

[skipthedemon.livejournal.com]

I have a hard time with Jack, too! Which is why I never brought Alt!Jack into whoville. Even with my characters interacting with him intensely for a long time, he's still sort of elusive.

[unfeathered]

Yeah, I kind of assumed you had trouble with him too, since you killed him off just to ensure you didn't have to bring him in... *g*

[skipthedemon.livejournal.com]

It made for good story!

[unfeathered]

It did! :-)

[sistercarrion.livejournal.com]

Well if you want to throw him against any of mine from any stage any time, feel free! Don't forget I still have a Spike hanging about too, and potentially a few others. I can do Simm!era Master in writing, and I've been dying to have a go in RP, although that would probs fall into 'Valiant-fic' territory, so hmm. I could set up an OC if you just wanted him to chat to get his viewpoints on things clearer in your head? That'd be in the sandbox natch, but I can do some things in Whoville too.

Too bad I can't use any of my LeChance folk. I know a couple that'd just love Victorian-era Jack!!

[unfeathered]

I have to admit, I was just thinking that is what I need to do! Especially since we seem to be completely running out of ideas in Whoville!

And I would love, love, love to play with your Simm!Master. :-)

Yeah, I have to admit I think he'd get on very well with one or two of your Le Chance folk. (Except that I'm not supposed to be able to tell which ones they are... *g*)

[sistercarrion.livejournal.com]

Don't forget Corwen - pre meeting John, could still be available too, if you wanted?

I'll have to poke my Simm!muse to see if he's still about. maybe try a drabble or too before I try and RP with him. TBH he scares the crap out of me sometimes, especially when I team him up with John, so I'm not sure how long I could maintain him, but it's worth a play, see what happens!

Heheh.. *whistles innocently* nope, me neither.. you didn't see me, right?

[unfeathered]

Yeah, Corwen could be interesting. *nods*

Hmmm. If I want to do this 'through the years' thing, I need to find myself a canon!Jack RP muse. But I do think it could be very interesting and useful.

[aeron-lanart.livejournal.com]

Funnily enough, I could never ever seem to write Ianto. Then one day it was like a switch flipped in my head and now I find him easiest to write in 1st person as he is *there* in my head. Bit weird at times having a Welsh bloke in your head.

I think Jack himself doesn't know how he feels about his team; he won't let himself think about it. Down that path lies regret and madness and self recrimination and he cannot afford to let himself feel that (which in itself leads to regret, madness and self recrimination). Having said that, I think in S2 Torchwood he's learning to accept what is as it is and not as he thinks it should be, if that makes sense.

Jack's POV is pretty difficult I think, and I can only manage it when it's about specific things (Ianto and Methos!) and then it's pretty easy *g*. I am stumbling over a Jack POV basic explanation of the year that wasn't atm, I even went out for coffee and cake in order for some creative assistance!

[unfeathered]

Your Ianto sounds like my Master. He just appeared one day and took over! *g*

I think Jack himself doesn't know how he feels about his team

That's actually pretty similar to what donutsweeper said up there (points to thread up there), and definitely makes a lot of sense. I like that - thank you! :-)

I am stumbling over a Jack POV basic explanation of the year that wasn't atm

I have to admit, I don't like to think about it, from Jack's POV. It's just too horrible. Which is why in the few post-Valiant, Jack-POV fics I've written (Constant, Drowning Sorrows, After the Storm, Worth the Wait - okay, not that few!) the descriptions of what happened to Jack during that year are deliberately very vague.

[aeron-lanart.livejournal.com]

Hence the basic bit. The only thing I do know is that Ianto's going to be the one to say 'enough', just got to get there. I sometimes worry that my Ianto seems to be too much like me personality wise and that I'm going to get caught out with that at some point.

Part of that stems from what I think he *isn't*, too much of which I see in fanfic. I think Ianto has great integrity as well as being a determined young man with a sick sense of humour and I know *so* many people in nursing who share that (including me, bar the young man bit). That's probably why he's taken up residence in my head. The funny thing is that when he's muttering in Welsh in a fic, I hear him in Welsh even though I only know a few words, that is well weird. I suppose what I'm hearing is more the cadence and timbre of what is spoken than the words.

And hey, I'm waffling again. Quelle Suprise!

[unfeathered]

Hey, no problem with waffling - it's nice to hear what people think about stuff!

Tbh, I really don't read a lot of Jack/Ianto fanfic, but from the few bits I have read (usually because they look hot and kinky *g* from the description but then turn out to be really boring) then, yeah, he usually looks like he's pretty much just a self-insertion in a lot of fics.

Tbh, I still don't really know what I think about Ianto, though my gut reaction is still that I don't like the guy (too smug). I seem to be all right writing Jack/Ianto from his POV, because that's the only part of him I'm really interested in, but I don't know that I could write anything else.